Replies

I am very grateful for George’s original post and Nelson’s reply. The critique of a debt-dependent economy seems astute, and I do question also an economy dependent on capital gains to measure financial health. I also question the assumptions of zero sum gains. I still wrestle with the potential of an economy based on measures of wellbeing rather than on the GNP. I will continue to follow this discussion with interest and hope for more adequate responses than we presently have built into our U.S. systems.

I am very grateful for George’s original post and Nelson’s reply. The critique of a debt-dependent economy seems astute, and I do question also an economy dependent on capital gains to measure financial health. I also question the assumptions of zero sum gains. I still wrestle with the potential of an economy based on measures of wellbeing rather than on the GNP. I will continue to follow this discussion with interest and hope for more adequate responses than we presently have built into our U.S. systems.

George, I find your imaginings for the future to be realistic rather than pessimistic. I do not see how major change in ecological care, economics, social support systems, or politics can take place without a collapse of the present ones. That will look different in different parts of the world, as you point out with the 1929 shifts, but change is difficult and slow without some kind of disaster or wake-up call that makes us realize that the status quo cannot continue. John Cobb wrote and spoke frequently about this phenomenon in economic systems, saying that collapse would be a gift to face us with the necessity and determination for change.

Not only do most of us benefit from the present system, but we know it and are comfortable in it, even while recognizing its severe flaws. Even large segments of our population in the U.S. who suffer under the present system would prefer to look back with nostalgia on a distorted past than move toward a radically new future. Certainly, people in the comfortable classes worry about losing the securities we now have. Ecological civilization calls for something radically new, and that requires an awareness of urgency, imagination, deep thinking, and courage. Thank you for raising these questions, George.

Roni, you pose a huge dilemma, which appears in many forms – carbon footprints, energy sources, competing forms of environmental protection and resource development, food production and consumption, and so forth. You present the dilemma well, and I would add some auxiliary questions:
(1) What does repentance mean? Does it mean to feel sorry or remorseful about an action or failure to act, OR to turn away from destructive ways of thinking and acting, OR to rearrange all of one’s values and life patterns?
(2) Where does repentance lead, or where might it lead?
(3) How can individuals, communities, and systems navigate the world of thoughts, actions, values, and feelings that present impossible choices–never fully good or fully evil?

These are questions that you raise directly and indirectly. I look forward to seeing how you develop your questions further; they are very important.

I also appreciate Nelson’s presentation of ideas from Katharine Hayhoe’s book. This is a very helpful resource, and you have contributed thoughtfully to Roni’s “impossible” set of questions.

Nelson, your story is gripping. You are chronicling the creation of an ecological civilization in your backyard. The plants and animals and you and your family (or the “we”) are living together, observing and learning from one another, and creating a life-giving space for all the creatures. I am struck with how the periwinkle ground cover communicated that it was not thriving and how that led you to more study and new action. I am also struck with how the increase in birds and wildlife taught you what makes them thrive and led you again to new decisions. Then, the insects in the new ground cover had their say. I think you describe the movement of practical wisdom, which is key to creating eco-civilization, whether in a backyard or village or county. You were not the only one learning either. All the creatures were learning and changing continuously–evolving as you say. Further, all the creatures have been doing their part, as the five maples merging together to make something new, which is both a real move toward ecological civilization and a totally cool metaphor. Thank you for this very insightful piece.

Andrew, this is a remarkable poem, which evokes wonder at the very movement, relationality, mutual participation, and fresh beginnings that you describe in your interpretation. Your insight about prehensions is “caught” in the poem and the photograph, which is a poem in itself. Thank you for creating such beauty and depth of insight in one short haiku.

Allison, I am very grateful for this. I appreciate the care of your reading and the insights about wash and awash and inner and outer. I am sorry I missed the session tonight. I was in the air flying home.

Christina, your comments are incredibly helpful. I will ponder them with great seriousness as I go back to revise. My immediate responses are a hearty “yes” to your insights and suggestions. Thank you very much for taking this time.

I am sorry I had to miss the last session of our writing series. I wanted very much to be there, but my daughter and I have traveled to make arrangements for our upcoming move, and we are in the thick of it today.
Peace,
Mary Elizabeth

Below is my latest edition of this poem based on a few editing sessions:

MAMA, DO YOU REMEMBER? [moved to Touching the Holy]

In my earliest memory,
I stood by you as you hung
the wash with wooden pins
on the line beside our home,
where white sheets waved
in thick Louisiana air.
I still see little me
watching, helping, feeling warm.

Mama, do you remember
our summer trips to the Gulf,
living a week in Biloxi
in a small motel,
filling a cooler each day
with tuna fish, oranges,
saltine crackers – yummy lunch
beneath a big umbrella on the sand?

Do you remember when we
flew to the Arizona desert,
years after, on your 50th anniversary,
four years to the day after Daddy died?
I remember it all. You were not disappointed
with me then, even though
I never became a proper lady.
an image of you.
You were awash with love,
and I soaked in it.

Dear Beth,
Thank you for this touching poem. I was especially drawn in with the second stanza and your words, “NO! Having me as a child,” which turn the poem to the very personal power of this relationship. In your new edition, I wonder if the third line of the third stanza might more fully mirror the descriptive form of the first line, e.g., “entering my teen years.” I wonder if something like this might more sharply communicate the sudden disruption. Please know that these are comments of an amateur.
Thanks,
Mary Elizabeth

Thank you very much, Lindsey. Your comment is very helpful. I think I will revise the entire poem to second person. I appreciate your taking time to read this.
–Mary Elizabeth