Replies

Thanks, Douglas. I need to read about Wheeler’s ideas, too. It all just deeper and deeper, and I feel like I’m dropping into a intellectual black hole. As you point out, it’s a large subject.

Thanks Mark and Eric for clarifying. So it seems that you both (+ chatGPT) are agreeing that the lure does indeed go all the way up. Since it’s a given in our discussion that God lures at the lowest level, God must be “simultaneously” luring a the lowest and the highest levels of organization, and maybe at points between. That seems unnecessary to me, but of course I’m still a novice when it comes to Whitehead, with much to learn.

Wow! 2 hrs. and 45 min. to get you out, and then all of the hospitalization. You’re one tough guy, Kevin!

As to NDEs–one of our optional readings in class 3 was a review of the book “Being You,” which was authored by Anil Seth. He discusses NDEs in the book. Here’s a link to an article by him in “The Guardian” discussing NDEs: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/15/near-death-experience-brain-last-hurrah.

Here’s a sort of summary paragraph in the article:
“Despite all this, little has been known about what happens in the brain immediately after the heart stops beating. To address this, Borjigin’s team induced heart attacks in anaesthetised rats and, surprisingly, found that brain activity continued after cardiac arrest, with some features actually becoming more prominent in the subsequent 30 seconds. Although these results are from rats and (fortunately) not people, they suggest the brain may have a final electrical “hurrah” as it shuts down. If the same thing happens in humans, it might account for some other aspects of near-death experiences, such as heightened alertness.”

He is a skeptic about the paranormal. Here’s the last paragraph of the article:
“What is it like to die? We still don’t know, but now there is even less reason to invoke the paranormal, supernatural, or theological in shaping an explanation. And to me this only increases the wonder of life and of all the experiences it holds, even as it comes to an end.”

Hi, Douglas. Thanks for your contribution. I need help on a couple of things.
In point #2 you say, “where conscious observers play a role in shaping reality”. And in point # 4 you mention “influencing the universe’s evolution.” Could you give me examples, please. I’m having trouble wrapping my head around these.

Thanks.

Thanks for the explanation, Bill.

I thought that Freud said the time in the womb was the cause of the oceanic feeling. But I couldn’t find it in “Civilization and Our Discontents” or in “On the Future of an Illusion.”

Thanks for you in-depth reply, Zhenbao. I’ve been in many classes with you and have always appreciated your contributions.

I had hoped that one day you might offer a lecture through Process & Faith concerning Daoism and process thought. But I suppose the time zone difference might make it too much of a burden for you.

Good point about “epistemic overreach, Mark: equating the one “stuff” to a variety of different things. Actually, I’m not sure what Strawson means by the
monistic stuff being “consciousness.” Awareness? But I would probably need to read one of his heavy tomes to understand this, which would be over my head.

Douglas, when you say, “Whitehead provides the answer,” are you talking about concrescence? Thanks.

Thanks for sharing your profound experience, Bill. I envy you, since I’ve never come close to that kind of experience. Maybe I’ve tried too hard; it seems like you made no effort. It reminds me of a new age practice from the 60’s called “Rebirthing Therapy.” I met a couple of people that had done it, with similar results. However, their way of “inducing’ the experience was different–based on breathing techniques.

I hope this doesn’t offend you, but this idea of the womb reminds me of Freudianism (about which I know little). Here is a quote from “Civilization and It’s Discontents.” The context was a discussion of the ways humans had introduced civilization. “Writing was in its origin the voice of an absent person; and the dwelling house was a substitute for the mother’s womb, the first lodging, for which in all likelihood man still longs, and in which he was safe and felt at ease.”

And here is something neo-Freudian by Karen Horney that I’d never heard of before and seems to me a huge stretch, “womb envy.” From “Britannica”: “She introduced the concept of womb envy, suggesting that male envy of pregnancy, nursing, and motherhood—of women’s primary role in creating and sustaining life—led men to claim their superiority in other fields.”

I don’t remember, Doug. Been a long time since I listened to the whole thing, if I ever did. It’d be worth the time. He is interesting, an atheist but believes in panpsychism. (You’re so clever, using the word “prehend.” I’ll to remeber to use it.)

[Charlie Arnett]

Wonderful, Mark. The rhymes seem so fitting. And I loved the line “But in the joy of what we’ve yet to get”: the idea of experiencing joy now for something yet uncertain. “Possibilities,” in Process terms.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Charlie Arnett.

A very interesting idea, Mark. Did you compare your findings with Koutroufinis’ actual talk? It was over my head, so I couldn’t even try.

[Charlie Arnett]

How can I find Matt’s other interviews with Timothy Jackson?

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by Charlie Arnett.

Thanks, Thomas. And the same to you. You have a knack at getting to the heart of the matter in discussion. I always learn from you comments.

Matt Hampton has asked for an example of an EO that is not relaitonal.